"Now, this was the first time I''ve ever had this experience happen to me. A voice within my spirit spoke, saying, ''Read Psalms Chapter 37,'' and I just went . . . Ahhhhhhhhh! I couldn''t believe it!"

"From then on I told everyone I was going to have a normal child. I had a lot of scoffers, naturally, but I still believed God to fulfill the promise He had made me. It was a real uphill struggle, believe me."

"I then started opening up to her about things I hadn''t ever opened up and admitted to myself. I told her that I was really upset, that I was hurt; that I felt the Lord had not honored my faith in His Word. And that He had let me down.

"I went upstairs and began crying and praying. I said, ''Lord, how do I deal with this? What do I do?'' And He said, BE STILL, AND KNOW THAT I AM GOD.'' A real peace came over me when He spoke that. I stopped crying instantly, like a little kid stops when you give him a cookie."


[NOTE: The following interview with Daun Bichler was conducted on November 22, 1982. Participating in the interview was Joe Bichler, Daun''s husband. Norm Rasmussen conducted this interview.]

NORM: I understand you believe God is still in the business of performing miracles. Is that correct?

DAUN: That''s correct.

NORM: I also understand God has performed a miracle inside you in the form of an infant. Could you tell us about it?

DAUN: I guess I should start by explaining the difficulties I''ve had getting pregnant. About three weeks after we were married I discovered I was pregnant. I lost that baby. I had a tubular pregnancy. The fallopian tubes are really small, nearly microscopic to begin with, and they don''t have the capacity to expand. As soon as the embryo begins to grow, they get stretched beyond capacity. Consequently, within a very short time, they burst like a balloon.

NORM: For the sake of keeping everyone informed of how the female organs operate, am I correct in saying that the fallopian tubes connect the ovaries and the uterus? The egg is manufactured in the ovaries, travels down one of the fallopian tubes, and is deposited in the uterus? A male sperm unites with the egg and the embryo begins to grow in the uterus? That is how a normal pregnancy would occur, correct?

DAUN: Correct. But in a tubular (or ectopic) pregnancy, the egg never makes it to the uterus. The sperm unites with the egg in the fallopian tube where the new embryo stays and grows until the tube bursts.

NORM: What happened in your case?

DAUN: Within the first weeks of pregnancy I had pain and abnormal bleeding. Strangely enough, a doctor misdiagnosed it. He said I was miscarrying, and that I should just go home and put my feet up. I took his advice. I went home and put my feet up and the emergency squad came and took me to the hospital the next morning! I woke up that morning with incredible pain, and got up and went into the bathroom. Halfway back I casually thought I''d lie down on the floor - - who needed to go back to bed, you know? I''d just stay there. I''m kind of stubborn and I told my husband, Joe, just to cover me up. I''d be okay there.

Joe left for work, but returned about 20 minutes later. He attempted to carry me out to the car, but I kept passing out because I had lost so much blood internally. Rather than drive me himself, he called the emergency squad and I went to the hospital that way. From there, I went into surgery. It''s usually common practice in an ectopic pregnancy not to even attempt to try to repair the fallopian tube. It''s so small to begin with that after it bursts there is nothing much more than ragged threads. Besides, there was one other good tube left, so they didn''t worry about it. The odds of having another tubular pregnancy were so small that they didn''t even take it into consideration. So they removed the damaged fallopian tube and sewed me back up.

NORM: What followed next in the details leading up to the miracle you experienced?

DAUN: In August of 1980, Joe and I watched a televised Kenneth Copeland service in which people were healed after having hands laid on them in prayer. This was our first exposure to divine healing and we really knew nothing about it. Yet this service was so clearly of the Lord that Joe laid his hands on me and together we asked the Lord to heal whatever might need further healing. It was more of a precautionary measure than anything else. I had no reason to believe there was a need for healing. That night was the first step into the realm of faith.

Now, we were planning to move from Florida back to Michigan where we were raised. The plan was that I would drive up first, leave the car there, and then fly back to Florida to join Joe in moving up the rest of our things. It was not confirmed, but by the time I headed out of Florida, I knew that I was pregnant a second time. On the way up I started having the same symptoms as I had the first time. Abdominal pain and cramping, and I knew that wasn''t right. However, I refused to believe that there was anything wrong.

NORM: Why was that? Because you had been prayed over?

DAUN: Yes and there was another instance I forgot to tell you about. After Joe had prayed over me, I happened to be watching a 700 Club telecast on TV. Joe was gone at the time, and I was having my own private Bible study. I remember being terribly homesick for Michigan, because at this time we had not yet decided to move back up. I wanted to move; I wanted a house; I wanted a baby -- I had all these wants. I was so depressed and I was crying, having my own private pity party, and the 700 Club came on. Wouldn''t you know they showed something really appropriate like the starving children in Africa to make me feel even worse, ha, and I got a case of the guilts something fierce.

Then I started crying all over again. I remember saying, "Oh Lord, I''m sorry. This is really selfish of me, because I can see how much you have really blessed me." Now, this was the first time I''ve ever had this experience happen to me. A voice within my spirit spoke, saying, "Read Psalms 37." I just went . . . "Ahhhhhhh!" I couldn''t believe it! I never had encountered anything like that before.

NORM: Were you watching the 700 Club?

DAUN: No. I had turned it off and was crying again and just praying. The Lord just spoke and told me to read Psalms 37, which I did. Certain words sort of leaped off the page and it said to DELIGHT IN HIM, TRUST HIM, AND HE WOULD GIVE ME THE DESIRES OF MY HEART. BE PATIENT, DON''T FRET, AND WAIT . . . the whole thing reads like that; trusting in the Lord and waiting on Him.

NORM: And the desire of your heart was to move back to Michigan and have a home and family?

DAUN: Exactly. Then I felt it was okay to have those wants, that it was natural and normal and He had placed those wants in me. Anyway, I stuck to that promise. I even called up my Mom and read it to her.

Now we can move forward again to where we had decided to move back to Michigan. Now remember, somehow I knew I was pregnant. I was driving and as soon as I hit the Michigan State line, I had incredible pain and cramping. There was a girl riding with me and I dropped her off. By the time I got to my mother''s house, I could hardly stand. I laid down and I wasn''t going to tell her. I refused to say there was anything wrong. The Lord had promised! But, I didn''t know what to do with that promise. All I knew was that He said I would have children. I didn''t know anything about the authority the believer has, or how to come against things that are contrary to what God has told you. Plus, we had prayed that one night and I figured that was enough. All I had to do was believe from that point on. I didn''t know anything about warfare.

NORM: How do you mean God told you that you were going to have children?

DAUN: When He told me to read Psalms 37, I just knew in my spirit he was going to fulfill that desire in my heart for a home and family. I had nothing against adoption, but I really felt my true desire was to have my own child.

NORM: I see. Okay then, back to the pain you were having upon arrival at your mom''s house.

DAUN: I continued to have the pain off and on for about a week, not telling anyone about it. Joe flew up from Florida and landed in Detroit. We no sooner got into the car to drive to Grand Rapids when the pain hit again - incredible pain. But, I''m the type that tries to explain everything away - gas, something I ate, you know? I think I told Joe I was a little uncomfortable, but I didn''t let on how bad the pain was.

Once we arrived in the Grand Rapids area we drove to the house we were going to move into. We walked around it, looked it over, found a key and went inside. I went upstairs, and it was like an instant replay of the first time. I was in the bathroom, and I stepped out and that''s as far as I could make it. I had to lie down on the floor again. I must have lain there a good 20 minutes while Joe was downstairs checking the rest of the house out. I finally walked downstairs and told him I was in a lot of pain, and that something was wrong. So we drove over to his sister''s house and she called her doctor. We called my mom in Kalamazoo, MI and decided I should go to the hospital. From this point on things got hazy for me so Joe can probably tell the details better than I can.

JOE: My sister''s doctor operated on her and after he was finished he came out and told me that Daun was okay. Now, any other doctor would have taken the whole fallopian tube out, but Dr. Brandt said it had burst at the very end, and the reason they were in surgery so long was that he had done what he could to repair it. He said he didn''t know whether it would be any good or not after that, but at least he had tried to save it.

DAUN: It was really neat how the Lord placed us in Dr. Brandt''s hands, because other doctors have told me that they would not have attempted to repair the tube. You see one thing Dr. Brandt said after surgery was that there were so many things wrong inside me from the first surgery that I probably might never have carried a normal baby for a whole 9 months anyway. I had bleeding cysts on my ovaries, scar tissue had adhered to my bowels, and I had an inflamed appendix too! I was a mess. So I thanked the Lord because I would have hated to be pregnant, only to lose the baby months later.

I thought at that point that the Lord had worked it out that I was in the doctor''s hands so he could get me all fixed up inside so I could have a normal pregnancy later on. From then on I told everyone I was still going to have a normal child. I had a lot of scoffers, naturally, but I still believed God to fulfill the promise He had made me. It was a real uphill struggle. Very few believed me.

NORM: Including Dr. Brandt?

DAUN: I think so. He ran some tests on me, six or seven months after the surgery, to see if the fallopian tube was blocked. They attempted to run dye through it, but he couldn''t complete the tests. Later, he told me that he had held no hope for me getting pregnant outside of a test-tube baby.

JOE: We believe God left that tube in. It wasn''t any good, but He left it in to bolster her faith. Dr. Brandt never said anything to wreck her faith.

DAUN: Yes! He never told me that there wasn''t any hope until after I became pregnant! So I had something to place my faith on. If he had taken the tube out it would have been hard to believe that the Lord wasn''t directing me toward other means like test-tube or something. It''s easier to believe for the Lord to fix something rather than to have to grow a whole new one. It''s difficult to step out of the natural realm, and step into the spirit and trust God TOTALLY.

So, there I was, tests inconclusive as to whether my tube was workable or not. I kept telling everyone, "Don''t worry, the Lord''s going to take care of me. I''m going to have children."

I''ll tell you though, on the inside I was really struggling. It was difficult. It seemed as though the Lord was nowhere to be found. There was something in my relationship with the Lord that was missing. It was like I was praying to the wall. It seemed as though He wasn''t even hearing me. Worst of all, I couldn''t figure out why.

I had heard a lot of teachings about what can hinder your relationship with the Lord, and they all dealt with unforgiveness of some sort, or anger. I began to think of everybody I could that I''d been mad at in my entire life, and forgave them for everything, ha . . . I even got to the point where I was making up things!

Occasionally a little voice would whisper in my spirit and say, "You''re angry with Jesus," and I would rebuke it! I''d say, "In the name of Jesus I am not! I''m no dummy! I''m not going to be mad at the Lord. Why would I be mad at the Lord?!"

NORM: So it was the Holy Spirit speaking to you then?

DAUN: Yes, and I refused to recognize Him. I didn''t want to listen.

I started going to the First Assembly of God church on 44th Street in Wyoming, Michigan . . . a suburb of Grand Rapids

I remember sitting through a couple of baby dedications and losing it totally. You know, still not willing to let out what was eating away at me. I would sit there and I''d say to myself, "This is not fair, Lord. Why them and not ME?"

Again the Holy Spirit would speak to me, "You''re angry with Jesus." And again I would rebuke it! I didn''t realize I was treading on dangerous ground, you know?

Christmas of 1981, First Assembly of God had additional telephones installed for their special yearly Singing Christmas Tree presentation. People who wanted counseling or prayer could call in on a special line. During the first week of January 1982, a couple of weeks after the presentation, I was listening to their church radio program. Pastor Benson and Pastor Klingenberg were both speaking on the broadcast, and they started out by giving that special phone number to call in for prayer requests. That''s as far as I got! I never heard another word. I think I was crocheting at the time, and I literally dropped what I was holding in my hands. I KNEW I had to call in.

Fortunately, I was in the house alone, so I called and a girl answered. She said, "How can I help you? Why are you calling?"

"I don''t know," I said. I told her what happened, that I had been sitting there listening to the radio broadcast, and I knew I had to call. I didn''t know why. I really felt dumb!

So she said, "Let''s pray." So we prayed. (I just met her a couple of weeks ago, (10 months later), and she told me that the Lord had given her all those things to say to me. Incredible!)We prayed about why the Lord wanted me to call her. What He wanted to say to me. And after that prayer, she asked me, "Do you have a need for healing?"

I was not going to say yes, because by saying yes that would show a lack of faith, so I said, "No. However, let me tell you what has happened in my life." I told her all about my history of losing my two babies, and the surgery and all. She said, "Okay, fine. I agree with you. I''ll stand with you on the promises He has given you and we''ll not say you have need of a healing. But . . . let''s pray again and see what else God wants to say, okay?"

We prayed some more, and then she asked, "Do you have a problem with anger?"

I said quickly, "No, YES!" Oh no . . . I caught myself. What did I say? I then started opening up to her about things I hadn''t even opened up and admitted to myself. I told her that I was really upset, that I was hurt, that I felt the Lord had not honored my faith in His Word. He had let me down. I didn''t actually believe He had done this to me, but He had allowed it to happen and I didn''t understand why. I was angry because He hadn''t told me WHY. It just wasn''t fair. It was the not knowing that hurt so much.

We began praying then and the Lord began to minister to me. I never heard much more of what the girl said. We hung up, and the first thing the Lord said to me as clear as a bell was, "You had the authority all the time." It was MY position to do something.

NORM: Who spoke that?

DAUN: The Holy Spirit spoke to me in my spirit. I had been questioning why He had let this happen and he said that I had the authority to do something about it. He had given it to me.

I asked Him for forgiveness and a peace came over me. He then began to show me that from all the teaching I had from Kenneth Copeland Ministries, the 700 Club, and others, I had the knowledge I needed all along. I had neglected to use it - simple as that. I had been taught the authority of the believer and what we are to do when the circumstances are contrary to what God has told us in His Word. I never used it.

NORM: Clarify that if you can.

DAUN: As Christians, we have the authority of Christ in the world. When Satan seeks to destroy or interfere with what God''s plans are for us, it''s up to US to do something about it. According to Ephesians 6, we''re to PUT ON the armor, not just stand and wait for God to dress us!

Right after that this scripture ran through my mind a million times it seemed. MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. (Hosea 4:6) He also showed me that I needed to get into the Word more and study, and know exactly what my position was in Jesus Christ, and to never let Satan pull anything over on me again. He also told me that Satan took great delight in robbing me of that child and he really would have been thrilled if I had died, because I was more of an influence on unbelievers than I had realized.

The remaining month of January, plus February and March of 1982, I had a very painful ovulation period. The egg was released from the ovary and it traveled down the fallopian tube. As the egg traveled down the tube, the pain was so distinct that I could probably have taken a magic-marker and drawn a line on my belly where the tube was and where the egg was in it. It was as though God was shoving the egg farther and farther, a little at a time.

After that phone call in January with the lady at First Assembly of God, I was on top of the world. I could sail through baby dedications at church without crying a drop. It was so neat; so great to be back in fellowship with the Lord. The loss of the baby and the pain of mourning were terrible, but NOTHING is as bad as loss of fellowship with the Lord.

Towards the end of March 1982, Joe suggested that I go to the doctor and have tests run. "Let''s see what he''s got to say. Have some tests run; let''s get something concrete." I didn''t want to go. But, I was torn because I had previously ignored any pain Joe may have had, and I knew it wouldn''t be fair to just say "No." At the same time, I KNEW I was going to have a baby. I just had to be patient. If I went to the doctor at that point, it would be a step in the wrong direction; against my faith in the Lord to fulfill His promise.

Towards the end of the week it came to a head, and after a long discussion, I went off to be alone. I prayed and I cried, because he didn''t understand my position, and I felt trapped. I said, "Lord, how do I deal with this? What do I do?" And He said, "Be still, and know that I am God." A real peace came over me when He spoke that. I stopped crying instantly, like a little kid stops when you give him a cookie.

I went downstairs after that but I didn''t tell Joe what happened. I just told him to give me some time to think about it. Besides, I wasn''t sure what the Lord was directing me to do. I didn''t know if He meant, "Be still and I''ll give you courage," or "Be still and I''ll tell Joe something." He just said, "Be still." So, I didn''t say anything.

A week went by and I KNEW I was pregnant! I would run around the house holding on to myself to try to keep from dancing. I was elated! But, I had no physical evidence, so I didn''t dare say anything yet. Thank God, physical evidence came after about 10 days.

When I told Joe, his first reaction was a little skeptical, like everyone else''s. He just wanted to wait and see. Naturally, after all we had been through, Joe''s reaction was understandable.

I called my mother and told her. I was having a little discomfort, and because I had never been pregnant normally, I wasn''t sure how I was supposed to be feeling. I shared with her what the Lord had told me. She called me back in an hour and told me that the Lord had told her to pray. My brother was living at her home at that time with his wife, so all together, they sat down and prayed. The Lord led them in prayer that they should thank Him for this child, because it was in my womb where it should be and everything was okay; they were just to praise Him and thank Him.

After that, the Lord told my brother to read Mark 5:36: "BE NOT AFRAID - ONLY BELIEVE."

I went to the doctor about a week later, and I was sitting in his office. He said, "What can we do for you, Daun?" I said, "I''m pregnant." Needless to say, he too was a bit skeptical. In fact, his reaction was rather dry. He just said "Oh? Let''s see."

But, during the examination he got this big grin on his face, and said, "Oh! Someone''s prayers HAVE been answered. You''re right - I can feel it, and it''s growing!"

After that, every time I would see him for my check-ups, he would ask, "How''s that Miracle Baby doing?"

NORM: Wow.

DAUN: Yeah. I''m due December 20, 1982. That''s kind of a neat time to have a Miracle Baby - Christmas time.

NORM: So you''ve got about 4 weeks to go?

DAUN: Uh-huh.

NORM: Let''s go in another direction for a moment. Daun, you speak so freely of the Lord speaking to you. I know there are a lot of people that have mixed feelings about someone''s ability to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. Explain what it''s like when He speaks to you.

DAUN: Oh boy . . . that''s a hard one to put into words, because it''s spiritually understood. It''s so hard to find words to translate spiritual aspects of God into the physical.

NORM: Do you hear an audible voice?

DAUN: No, I don''t hear an audible voice. But it''s not just a sense in my spirit either, nor just a feeling that I should do this or that. It''s more of a sudden knowing . . . just knowing. He never contradicts anything He says in the Bible. In fact, more times than not, He''ll speak scripture to me. Something like, "Be still and know that I''m God." There''s always an undeniable peace that comes along with it and I always sense the presence of the Lord. I don''t have to doubt or question - - there''s this restful KNOWING. I just know.

NORM: One final question. Is the Lord Jesus Christ good, Daun?

DAUN: He sure is!




[As additional follow-up, Dr. Carl Brandt was sent a questionnaire to fill out. Our sincere appreciation goes out to his cooperation in taking a part in this interview. Here are the results of the questionnaire.]

Q: How long have you been a practicing obstetrician and gynecologist?


10 Years. Dr. Brandt, Daun believes that because of the damaged nature of her solitary fallopian tube, it was nearly impossible for an egg to travel through it and find its way to her uterus for sperm implantation. As the doctor who performed surgery on her remaining fallopian tube, on a scale of one to 100, what would you say the chances were of her getting pregnant without artificial insemination?

A: Very remote.

Q: Why do you feel that way?

A: One tube was surgically absent in 1979. The other was opened and resewn to remove a second tubular pregnancy in 1980.

Q: Certainly the human body is often capable of healing itself without God''s direct intervention. We all know that. But you have heard Daun''s story. She believes God miraculously intervened and answered her prayers. In light of the facts on hand, would you agree or disagree that God probably performed a miracle?

A: This is a highly unusual case with her chance of a normal pregnancy very remote. Whether the miracle was in the reconstruction and healing of her damaged tube or not is a mute point. She believed and the baby speaks for itself.